Showing 1 - 10 of 20 Items

Date: 2009-02-27

Creator: Kent Conrad

Access: Open access

Biographial Note

Kent Conrad was born on March 12, 1948, in Bismarck, North Dakota, to Abigail and Gaylord Conrad. After graduating from Phillips Exeter Academy in 1966, he attended Stanford University; he later received an MBA from George Washington University. After college, Conrad became an assistant to the North Dakota tax commissioner. He became tax commissioner in 1980, a job he held until 1986, when he successfully ran for the Senate as a Democrat representing North Dakota, when George Mitchell was chair of the DSCC. In 1992, he chose not run for reelection because of a campaign promise he made that he would not run for reelection if the budget deficit had not fallen by the end of his first term. However, the other North Dakota Senate seat became vacant and Conrad won a special election to fill that vacancy in December of 1992. At the time of this interview he was still in the Senate, serving on the Finance Committee, the Committee on Agriculture, Nutrition and Forestry, the Joint Committee on Taxation, the Committee on Indian Affairs, and as chairman of the Budget Committee.

Summary

Interview includes discussions of: the Muskie presidential campaign; Conrad’s Senate campaign of 1986; Mitchell as chair of the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee and his decision to give the maximum possible support to Conrad; the Clean Air Act; North Dakota’s interest as a coal state and the difficulties that posed for Conrad when Mitchell wanted him to get behind the Clean Air Act; Mitchell’s leadership qualities such as patience and determination; Mitchell’s role in balancing the budget under the Clinton administration; Mitchell’s skill in questioning witnesses; Mitchell’s sense of humor and how that served him well as a senator; Conrad’s recommendation to then Senator Obama regarding the importance of reaching out to Mitchell; and the prospects for Mitchell in his new post as special envoy to the Middle East.

Date: 2009-05-26

Creator: Martha Pope, Martin 'Marty' P Paone, C. 'Abby' Abbott Saffold

Access: Audio recording restricted during the lifetime of Senator George J. Mitchell

Biographial Note

Martin Patrick “Marty” Paone was born in Everett, Massachusetts, in 1951. His father was a National Labor Relations Board field examiner and his mother was a nurse. He attended Boston College, graduating in 1972 with degrees in economics and philosophy. He moved to Washington, D.C. in September of 1974 to pursue a master’s degree in Russian studies at Georgetown University, and while there he worked in the House post office and as a parking lot attendant at the Senate parking lot. This led to a job in the Senate Cloakroom in 1979 after he completed his degree. In 1982 he joined the Democratic floor staff, and in 1991 he became assistant Democratic secretary of the Senate. In 1995 he succeeded Abby Saffold as the Democratic secretary and remained in that post until 2008. At the time of this interview, he was a member of the lobbying firm Timmons & Company. Martha Pope was born in Newcastle, Pennsylvania, and grew up in Connecticut. She attended the University of Connecticut, majoring in sociology with minors in psychology and statistics and in art. She earned a master’s degree in art education at Southern Connecticut University. She taught art for five years in elementary and junior high school, and then she moved to Washington, D.C. and started work on Capitol Hill. She worked for Senator John Culver, and when Culver lost his bid for reelection, Senator Mitchell kept her on as Environment and Public Works Committee staff focusing on fish and wildlife issues. She became his administrative assistant, and when he became majority leader she became chief of staff to the majority leader. In 1990 she was nominated to be sergeant-at-arms of the Senate, and in 1994 she became secretary of the Senate; she retired from that office in January 1995. She joined the State Department to work with Senator Mitchell on Northern Ireland issues, which eventually led to the Good Friday Peace Agreement of 1998. Abby Saffold was born Carol Abbott “Abby” Reid in Baltimore, Maryland, and attended high school in Framingham, Massachusetts. At Bates College, she majored in history with a minor in government, then began a master’s degree program for arts in teaching at Antioch College; as part of that program, she taught junior high school for a year in Washington, D.C. She decided to pursue a job on Capitol Hill and found work first for Congressman William Lloyd Scott and then Congressman Lloyd Meeds. Subsequently, she was hired as a legislative secretary by Senator Gaylord Nelson and then worked for the Subcommittee on Constitutional Amendments for Senator Birch Bayh. In 1979 she joined the Democratic Policy floor staff, where she remained until Senator Byrd nominated her to be secretary for the majority (Democratic secretary) in 1987. She retired from that position in 1995.

Summary

Interview includes discussion of: how each of the interviewees came to work for Senator Mitchell; first impressions of Mitchell; Martha Pope’s work on the Environment and Public Works Committee; Mitchell’s intellectual capacity; Mitchell’s treatment of other senators and his staff; the impression that Mitchell made with Senator Byrd early on; Abby Saffold’s interaction with Mitchell as a member of the Democratic floor staff when he was a junior senator; majority leader race; Byrd’s parliamentarian skills; Mitchell’s speechmaking skills; Brunswick (Me.) bypass; authorization of boundaries for Acadia National Park; the reason Henry Kissinger was not asked to testify regarding Iran-Contra; Mitchell’s performance questioning Oliver North on Iran-Contra; an anecdote about Mitchell and Senator Cohen watching a basketball game together during the Iran-Contra affair; Mitchell’s relations with the Maine delegation; Mitchell’s leadership style; Mitchell’s relationship with Dole, the expectation that there would be no surprises; “read my lips, no new taxes” and President George H.W. Bush; the Clean Air Act reauthorization and tension with Byrd; Crime Bill; Senator Helms’s filibuster; the Clarence Thomas nomination and congresswomen marching on the Senate Democratic caucus; Marty Paone’s playing an April Fools joke on Mitchell; convincing Mitchell to do an interview with the National Journal before the leader race; and how Mitchell sparingly praised staff.

Date: 2010-05-20

Creator: Jane F O'Connor

Access: Open access

Biographial Note

Jane Frances O’Connor was born on March 13, 1960, in Augusta, Maine. She was one of twelve children born to Barbara Louise (Murray) and Dr. Francis J. O’Connor, both from Dorchester, Massachusetts. Her father was head of radiology at Augusta General Hospital; her mother was an artist and musician who stayed at home while her children were young. After growing up in Augusta in a nonpolitical family, Jane attended the University of Southern Maine and, later, Trinity College in Washington, DC. In the summer of 1980, she became an intern for Beverly Bustin-Hatheway, accompanying her around the state as a field representative for Senator George Mitchell, and she spent much of the summer helping pack up Senator Muskie’s papers for repository retention. In June 1981, O’Connor accepted a full time position as receptionist in Senator Mitchell’s office in Washington, DC, remaining in that position for about eight years. After Mitchell’s departure from the Senate, she went to work for a trade association.

Summary

Interview includes discussion of: Beverly Bustin’s state legislative campaign; Senate office staff in DC; Mitchell’s sense of humor; telephone story; bread story; brownies story; description of Senator Mitchell’s various offices and staff roles; Mitchell’s Senate retirement; his frugality; the apartment/video store story; Mitchell Institute; Gayle Cory; Martha Pope; and education of staff.

Date: 2010-04-22

Creator: Kelly T Currie

Access: Open access

Biographial Note

Kelly T. Currie was born on September 11, 1963, in Lewistown, Montana, to Edmund and Bette Currie, and grew up in Farmington, Maine. His father was a professor at the University of Maine, Farmington and his mother was a nurse. He attended the University of Virginia and was graduated in 1986, serving a summer internship with Senator Mitchell’s office between his junior and senior year. In the fall of 1986, he worked on Jim Tierney’s Maine gubernatorial campaign. He joined Senator Mitchell’s Senate staff full-time in January of 1987 as a legislative correspondent dealing with finance, defense, and veterans’ affairs issues. He later transitioned to the position of deputy press secretary, focusing on the Maine press and Maine issues. At the time of this interview he was deputy chief of the Criminal Division of the U.S. Attorney’s Office for the eastern district of New York.

Summary

Interview includes discussion of: childhood and educational background; summer intern in Senator Mitchell’s office; legislative correspondent and issues; deputy press secretary; driving for Mitchell and talking sports; Senate majority leader race; 1992 presidential campaign; extensive description of the Northern Ireland peace process; Iran-Contra; Sharm-el Sheikh; 1988 Senate reelection campaign; the Maine press; and Mitchell’s sense of humor.

Date: 2009-04-28

Creator: David E Johnson

Access: Open access

Biographial Note

David E. Johnson was born on July 20, 1947, to Evelyn Irene (Hale) and Frank Tivis Johnson in Hardtner, Kansas. His father operated a grain elevator and his mother worked at a department store. He was raised in Enid, Oklahoma, attending Enid High School, where he excelled at debate, and was graduated from the University of Oklahoma with a degree in journalism. He worked for Ed Muskie’s 1972 presidential campaign in the “boiler room” and on his Intergovernmental Relations Committee from 1972 to 1978, working with Al From. He then worked for the Carter administration and for the Department of Health and Human Services. He was administrative assistant to George Mitchell from 1981 to 1984. After a period of a few months in the governmental relations office of the Pharmaceutical Manufacturers Association, he became executive director of the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee (DSCC). Since 1987 until the time of this interview, worked in a Washington, D.C. lobbying firm; he also held the position of chair of the Board of Directors of the Mitchell Institute.

Summary

Interview includes discussion of: the Muskie 1972 presidential race; working for the Carter administration; his interview with Senator Mitchell for the administrative assistant position in the coffee shop of the Portland Airport; arriving in the Senate office without anyone having been informed that he was hired; hired as executive director of the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee (DSCC); the 1982 U.S. Senate campaign; the challenges that Mitchell’s schedule and travel back to Maine presented; anecdote about Mitchell and a senator’s ID card; the tradition for the Senate staff to relax with a few beers in the office after their senator was safely out of the office for the weekend; the familial nature of the Senate staffs when members of the staff had long tenures; smoking in the office; Gayle Cory, how she took to “raising” Johnson, her expertise, and her role in holding the office together; the atmosphere of Mitchell’s office and his leadership style; Johnson’s role as chief of staff; criticism of Mitchell as a tax-and-spend Democrat and Mitchell’s index card response; answering the mail and how Mitchell enjoyed calling some of those who had written his office; Mitchell’s overall strategy of piecing many small elements together to accomplish his goals; and the development of the working relationship between Johnson and Mitchell.

Date: 2009-05-11

Creator: John L Hilley

Access: Open access

Biographial Note

John L. Hilley was born on October 22, 1947, to Dorothy and William Hilley in Tampa, Florida. His father was in the Air Force, so his family moved frequently. In eleventh grade he attended Phillips Academy in Andover, Massachusetts, and went on to Princeton University. He taught for a few years, then returned to Princeton to earn a Ph.D. in economics. He taught at Lehigh University, receiving tenure, then moved to Washington, D.C. He began work at the Congressional Budget Office and then transitioned to the Senate Budget Committee, becoming staff director under Senator Sasser. In January of 1991, he became Senator Mitchell’s chief of staff and continued in that role until Mitchell’s retirement in 1995. He subsequently served briefly as chief counsel to Senator Daschle in the Majority Leader’s Office. From 1996 to 1998, he worked as senior advisor and head of legislative affairs for President Clinton. He has been the executive vice president of the National Association of Securities Dealers and the chairman and CEO of NASDAQ International.

Summary

Interview includes discussion of: Hilley’s education; work at the Congressional Budget Office and the Senate Budget Committee; working for Senator Sasser; the role of the budget in legislation; Mitchell’s mental abilities; the majority leadership race; Mitchell’s work ethic and dedication to Maine; the different elements of the majority leader’s work; the activities of the Maine staff, the floor staff, the whip operation, the Senate administrative staff, and the Senate parliamentarian; Mitchell’s and Dole’s agreement to no surprises; the difference between Mitchell and Byrd as leader; the transition from Martha Pope to Hilley as chief of staff and what the chief of staff role entailed; the majority leader’s working with the Democratic National Committee and the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee; key senators with whom Mitchell built relationships; Mitchell and Senator Sarbanes sharing cucumber sandwiches; Mitchell’s even-keeled temperament; the staff’s access to Mitchell; staff meetings; when Hilley used Mitchell’s hideaway to take naps after an illness; a maneuver they used to defeat a capital gains tax cut and Senator Bentsen’s loyalty to Mitchell; the first Iraq War; the change in the majority leader’s role when President Clinton came into office; the Clinton administration’s stimulus bill, the subsequent deficit reduction package and how it brought out the partisan divide in the Senate; the Clinton administration’s initial blunders; Hillary Clinton’s health care package; the 1994 crime bill; Mitchell’s relationship with President Clinton and communication with the White House; Mitchell’s office’s relationship with the House; Mitchell’s style of running meetings; Mitchell’s dealings with the press; the budget and the meetings at Andrews Air Force Base; Senator Byrd’s giving John Sununu a dressing down at Andrews Air Force Base; Mitchell’s retirement; Senator Daschle as Mitchell’s successor; Mitchell’s humor; Hilley’s wish that Mitchell had been president; Senator Dole’s humor; the present day lack of moderates in both parties; Harry Reid’s job today and the Obama administration’s endeavors; how the question of who holds the presidency is inextricably linked to what came before.

Date: 2008-07-21

Creator: Michael 'Mike' M Hastings, Anita Jensen, Estelle Lavoie, Mary E McAleney

Access: Open access

Biographial Note

Michael M. Hastings, a native of Morrill, Maine, graduated from Tilton School (NH) in 1968 and Bowdoin College in 1972. Following a year of graduate study in Public & International Affairs at George Washington University, he worked for seven years as a foreign and defense policy aide to Senator William S. Cohen (1973-1980) and for four years for Senator George J. Mitchell (1980-1984). In October, 1984, he joined the international staff of Catholic Relief Services (CRS) and moved to Africa. Over a span of eight years, he worked as a CRS development administrator in Kenya, Tanzania, Togo and The Gambia. During the same period, he assisted in the provision of emergency food for people displaced by civil wars in the Southern Sudan and Liberia. In 1992, he returned to Maine to direct a “center for excellence,” focusing on aquaculture and economic development. Since 2004, he has worked for the University of Maine as its Director of Research and Sponsored Programs. Between 1992 and 2008, he also served on several civic boards and institutions including the Maine Fishermen’s Forum, The Maine Oil Spill Advisory Committee (which he chaired), the Maine Indian Tribal State Commission, the Down East Institute, and the Maine Sea Grant Policy Advisory Committee. Between 1996 and 2001 he was elected three times to be a member of the Town Council of Hampden, ME, where he resides with his wife, a middle school teacher. Anita Holst-Jensen was born in Karl-Marx-Stadt (Chemnitz), East Germany, on March 16, 1945, to Rasma Rasmanis and Arvids Lusis. Her mother emigrated from Latvia in September of 1944, and Jensen was born in a displaced persons camp, where she lived until she was four years old. Her family eventually emigrated to Australia in 1949, settling in Victoria. Jensen received all of her schooling in Australia and went to university in Melbourne. She married Henning Holst-Jensen, and in 1966 they moved to Perth. When immigration into the United States became possible in 1968, they relocated to the Washington, D.C. area, and Jensen took a job with Investors Overseas Services, later Equity Funding. In 1970, she went to work in Senator Ed Muskie’s office, where she continued until he became secretary of state. She transitioned to George Mitchell’s staff when he was appointed to Muskie’s vacated Senate seat and remained for his fourteen years of Senate service, becoming increasingly involved with speech writing and research. Estelle Lavoie was born in Lewiston, Maine, on November 23, 1949, and grew up there, the youngest of three children. Her father worked as a building contractor until his death in 1964, after which her mother worked part-time as a bank teller. She attended Lewiston public schools and was graduated from Bates College (class of 1971), spending her junior year studying in Switzerland. At the end of 1972, she went to work for Governor Ken Curtis. By September of 1973, she had been hired as part of Senator Ed Muskie’s staff, working first as a caseworker and eventually as his legislative assistant. She attended law school at American University from 1978 to 1981 and transitioned to Senator Mitchell’s staff when he assumed Muskie’s Senate seat. She left Mitchell’s staff in the fall of 1983 and joined the law firm of Preti, Flaherty, Beliveau & Pachios the following June. Her practice has evolved from health law to other political practice issues. She served on the Democratic State Committee from 1986 to 1990 and was a delegate to the 1988 National Convention. Mary Elizabeth McAleney was born on March 18, 1945, in Tuscaloosa, Alabama. Her mother, Helen Irene (Twombly) McAleney, was a Works Progress Administration worker, and her father, William McAleney, was a U.S. Customs officer. Mary came from a strongly Democratic Maine family and was politically active from a young age. She was sent from her home near Vanceboro, Maine, to St. Joseph’s boarding school in South Portland, and from there she went to Merrimac College. After her graduation, she taught high school in Maine, first at St. Joseph’s and then at Catherine McAuley High School. After eight years of teaching, she went into political work. She quickly rose through the ranks during Senator Muskie’s ‘76 campaign and worked for state Senator Jim Tierney. She served in George Mitchell’s U.S. Senate office for ten years (1984-1994), focusing on Maine issues.

Summary

Interview includes discussion of: how Mary McAleney became Mitchell’s scheduler; the transition from Muskie to Mitchell; how Mitchell’s briefcase would be searched entering the office because initially no one knew who he was; the Elizabeth Taylor story; the cow joke; the 1982 U.S. Senate campaign; anecdotes about when Mitchell accidentally sat in a canoe backwards and when David Emery’s float sank in the Kennebec River; the relationship between Cohen and Mitchell; Mitchell’s gaining the support of one of Estelle Lavoie’s friends because he knew the name spelling; Mitchell’s work ethic; Mitchell’s complimenting Byrd on his history of the Senate; Mitchell eye glasses and the striped belt; visiting Talmadge Plantation after Mitchell’s reelection in 1988; Mitchell’s ability to learn and adapt; Anita Jensen’s experience driving Mitchell to work; Mitchell’s lifestyle in D.C.; Sally Mitchell’s decision to stay in Maine and not become involved in politics; the women’s restroom situation in the Capitol; the machine-gun ban and how Feinstein did not want to come to the Senate floor the day after it passed; Mitchell’s process for examining different points of view; an anecdote about Mitchell’s changing his mind and explaining it to the press; Jensen’s lively discussions with Mitchell; the Rehnquist nomination; the role of the staff in Mitchell’s office; Gayle Cory and her influence in the office and with Mitchell; Buzz Fitzgerald; the dynamics of the Mitchell Senate office and the office organization’s lack of hierarchy; the longevity of the staff; Anita Jensen’s role as the speechwriter; writing updates about China; Larry Benoit’s and David Lemoine’s traveling around Maine to update the voter lists; Larry Benoit; Mitchell’s making sure that there were Mainers working for him; the interns; and the Mitchell Institute.

Date: 2009-03-31

Creator: John W. Warner

Access: Audio recording permanently restricted

Biographical NoteJohn William Warner was born February 18, 1927, to John W. Warner and Martha Budd Warner. He grew up in Washington, D.C. and was graduated from Woodrow Wilson High School in 1945. He enlisted in the Navy after high school and is a veteran of World War II. After leaving the service he attended Washington & Lee University in Lexington, Virginia, graduating in 1949. He attended law school at the University of Virginia but left to serve in the Marines during the Korean War; subsequently, he received his law degree from George Washington University in 1953, served as a law clerk and became an assistant U.S. attorney before going into private practice in 1960, when he also served as a member of Richard Nixon’s advance staff during the 1960 presidential campaign. He married Catherine Conover Mellon in 1967 and they had three children before divorcing in 1973. In 1969, Warner was appointed undersecretary of the Navy, and then in 1972 he rose to be secretary of the Navy, a post he held for two years. President Ford appointed him director of the American Revolution Bicentennial Administration. In 1976, he married Elizabeth Taylor; they divorced in 1982. In 1978, Warner ran unsuccessfully in the Virginia Republican primary for the U.S. Senate; however, when the nominee was killed in a plane crash, he was asked to step in with only ten weeks until the election. Warner managed a narrow victory, earning the nickname “Landslide Johnny,” and remained in the Senate for thirty years, eventually retiring in 2009 as Virginia’s second longest serving senator. At the time of this interview he was a partner at the firm Hogan & Hartson, now Hogan Lovells. SummaryInterview includes discussion of: Warner’s entry into politics in 1960 as a member of then Vice President Nixon’s advance staff; opening Nixon’s Washington, D.C. office in 1968; serving as undersecretary, and later secretary, of the navy; working on the nation’s bicentennial; the 1978 Virginia Senate race; an anecdote about Warner and Mike Mansfield serving in the military; majority and minority leaders descriptions; the role of the filibuster in the Senate and how it has evolved; Mitchell’s Elizabeth Taylor joke and sense of humor in general; how the Republican caucus regarded Mitchell; an anecdote about Washington and Jefferson discussing the role of the Senate in the bicameral system; George Mitchell’s interest in environmental issues and the Clean Air Act; the ISTEA transportation bill; projects, or “pork”; the Gulf War Resolution; Mitchell’s views on military spending and awarding of shipbuilding contracts; BRAC proceedings and the Loring Air Force Base closure; the pendulum of political power; the political shift in 1980 with Reagan’s election; Reagan’s economic policies; how the culture of the Senate has changed; the increased importance of fund-raising; former House members in the Senate; Maine senators and distinguished careers; the Gang of Fourteen; Warner’s role in electing Bill Frist to majority leader; the Clintons’ attempt at health care reform; Warner’s role in encouraging Dole to run for majority leader; Hillary Clinton as a senator; Mitchell’s career since leaving the Senate; the challenges Mitchell faces as special envoy for the Middle East; Warner’s thoughts on leaving the Senate, and his plans for the future at the firm Hogan Lovells.

Date: 2008-09-27

Creator: Floyd L Harding

Access: Open access

Biographial Note

Floyd L. Harding was born on August, 26, 1923, in Albion, Maine. His father was a rural mail carrier and his family lived and ran a small family farm. He is one of twelve children (10 boys and 2 girls). He attended Bessey High School in Albion and Colby College. He served in the Army for three years, where he was taken prisoner-of-war. In 1949, he received his law degree from Boston University; he then moved to Presque Isle, Maine, and has practiced law there ever since. He worked for the Maine Potato Growers as assistant general counselor from 1950-1954 and established his own practice in 1954. He served three terms on the Maine state Senate (his wife ran one of his campaigns). He and his wife raised nine children.

Summary

Interview includes discussions of: parental political leanings and the naming of their son Warren; Harding’s experience as a prisoner-of-war in Dresden during World War II; his work for the Potato Board; family law in Presque Isle; the Democratic Party’s development in Maine; serving as a state senator and as majority leader; the “car beside the road” analogy for progressive policy; Mitchell’s cow joke; the contrast between Mitchell and Muskie; Loring Air Force Base closure and its transition to various civilian uses; the founding of Northern Maine Community College; taking issue positions during a campaign and how Mitchell learned from Harding; and Mitchell as an advocate for Maine.

Date: 2009-04-20

Creator: Thomas 'Tom' A Daschle

Access: Open access

Biographial Note

Thomas Andrew Daschle was born on December 9, 1947, in Aberdeen, South Dakota, to Elizabeth B. Meier and Sebastian C. Daschle. He attended South Dakota State University, being graduated with a degree in political science in 1969. After college he served as an intelligence officer in the U.S. Air Force. He started in politics as a staff member to South Dakota Senator James Abourezk. In 1978, Daschle was elected to the U.S. House of Representatives and served for four terms there. In 1986, he ran for the U.S. Senate and won, serving until he lost the seat in the fall 2004 elections; he succeeded George Mitchell as Senate majority leader in the Senate in 1995. He served as a key advisor to Barack Obama in his presidential campaign of 2008 and was nominated to be the secretary of health and human services; his nomination proved controversial, and he withdrew his name from consideration. He has been heavily involved in working for health care reform. At the time of this interview, he served as a policy advisor at the firm Alston & Bird and was a senior fellow at the Center for American Progress.

Summary

Interview includes discussion of: becoming acquainted with Mitchell; making the move to the Senate from the House; Mitchell’s role as chairman of the 1986 Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee; the Senate class of 1986; the Democratic trend in the 1986 elections; working in the Senate compared to working in the House; the similarities between Daschle and Mitchell and the foundation of their friendship; Daschle’s role as co-chair of the Policy Committee; the Policy Committee’s functions and Mitchell’s role in expanding its responsibilities; Mitchell’s interest in baseball; Daschle’s campaign and election to majority leader; the procedure of the Senate leader election; Mitchell’s advice to Daschle as his successor as majority leader and his help in making the transition; Daschle’s surprise at Mitchell’s retirement decision; the 1994 elections; the check scandal that involved the House bank; Byrd’s decision to move from majority leader to chair of the Appropriations Committee; how Mitchell ought to be remembered; the Bipartisan Policy Center; thoughts on how Mitchell would have been as a presidential candidate; and Mitchell’s and Daschle’s mutual interest in hearing and telling funny stories.